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Matt Ball's avatar

I love that you point out that EA becomes its own social status system - a competition for the highest expected value. All the while, those EAs believe they are "rational" and without cognitive illusions, “Reason and evidence” aren’t magic words that exempt any of us from bias. EV becomes its own "religion."

Thank you for bringing this up. I know it doesn't apply to all EAs.

My own framing is slightly different. Primarily, I care about preventing the most severe suffering. Suffering doesn't simply “sum” across individuals. That's where EV goes off the rails.

But we are still left with the same question: given limited time and money, at the margin, how can we actually prevent the worst experiences? I thank the EA community (and the pre-EA folk like Peter Singer and Jason Gaverick Matheny) for this.

Andy Blank's avatar

"Social cohesion was a matter of life and death, and relied on members of the group not randomly getting some idea in their heads that seemed logical and right but didn’t fit what the group needed from them."

That is *exactly* what kept humanity in starvation, famine, constant war, and appalling levels of infant mortality and primitive ignorance for virtually the entirety of human existence. Until around the 18th century. The problem, the massive mountainous elephant taking a dump in the room and screaming fire level of emergency problem, with EA is it -alongside most other ethical systems- pays basically zero attention to the problem of human, individual liberty and its relationship to production, without which we go back to starving tribes of savages murdering each other.

Ethics, properly, is about the human requirements of both living and living well. Loved ones, neighbors, are all higher values, in the case of children perhaps a higher value for me than my own life. To say that ethical values require self destruction in the name of strangers on different continents is to render "ethics" so convoluted and upside down, that it is no wonder most people simply tune it out completely.

Ethics shouldn't be able gimmicky games involving railroad tracks switches, or war scenarios involving crying babies and the SS - but about how to choose the values you need daily to build your life.

Once you understand that doesn't involve lying, cheating, and stealing- that those methods are necessarily self destructive, and not 'cheat codes' to do well - witness the lives and mental conditions of even 'successful' Dictators and criminals- then the rest fills itself in.

Hey. If you're the big time CEO making trillions and you want to give some away, great. But honestly- if you've *earned* a trillion in a free market building something that incredibly valuable, then you've probably transformed daily human life. Jeff Bezos transformed life for the better - I get to read any book, anywhere, in easy on my eyes ink, and spend time with my kid instead of shopping for things because I can click a few things on my phone in about 1 minute. Guys like that - they're probably better off just doing what they did to get rich, if you're talking about helping humanity.

That's how you get cheap, affordable Healthcare, longer life-spans, and even the things you want to make life worth living and enjoyable. Not figuring out formulas for how many mosquito nets someone in some corner needs - by all means, do it- but it's amazing how quickly that marginal utility turns into burning the rich to feed the poor, and everyone being equal in misery and poverty.

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